post from theorthodoxchurch.blogspot.com
Isa your passion is commendable but almost all your facts are wrong: not a good combination.
1). About Orthodox History in America visit www.orthodoxhistory.org and get the facts.
2). “first church of the Moscow Patriarchate in Turkey” is in fact is an embassy chapel of Sts Constantine & Helen, in summer residence of Russian consulate, which BTW, HAH Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew consecrated.
3). Nobody recognizes the OCA’s autocephaly because it was founded un-canonically by a church (MP) who was clearly out of its canonical jurisdiction… MP was on the coattails of Russian Czarist expansion and now wants to force everybody to buy their lies (good ‘ol Russian tactic).
4). “Jerusalem (where they are killing the Church)” - all I can say here is: you’re out to lunch…
There are so many outrageous and false statements you put forward that is almost as laughable as the theorists lacking judgment over at the AOI website and the foolish individuals bunched together over there, the scary thing is, you sound like you believe it.
The reality of the OCA is hard to recognize: the fact that their status is un-canonical is clear. The fact that you can’t accept it is sad.
31 August, 2009
3 comments:
1. If you read there, I post the facts there, e.g. I was the one to definitely identity the circumstances of the "Not Quite SCOBA" photo.
2. I'm aware of that. Your point?
3. Wrong again: only the Greeks didn't recognize it, and then only belatedly: the Greek Consul took part in the founding of the OCA Cathedral in SF. See the Greek priest submitting his credentials to the Russian Bishop.
http://www.holy-trinity.org/history/1903/11.16.Dabovich-Tikhon.html
When Met. Meletios and Bp. Alexander founded the GOANSA the CoG had deposed the former and defrocked the latter. Only those "uncanonical" Russian bishops recognized Meletios election as EP: the Greek Churches declared it "invalid, illegal and void." (Meletios, btw, had been declared canonically ineligible for EP less than a decade before).
The plurality of the Autocephalous Churches recognize the OCA's autocephaly, as well as the VAST majority of the Orthodox.
Btw, are you claiming that no drachmas or dollars are involved in promoted the novel interpretation of canon 28?
4. Either you have never been to Jerusalem, or you refuse to see.
I can fully document every statement I make. Can you document a single instance before 1908 where the novel interpretation of canon 28 was accepted as the Holy Tradition of the Church?
Don't weep for me, or the OCA, Elgreca. Neither of us show signs of extinction. Which, unfortunately cannot be said about the Phanar.
Isa
1)Your log on the website doesn’t disprove that you are wrong factually about Orthodoxy in America.
2)The point was your were wrong about the first church in Istanbul and the growth of Russian population there
3)Your plurality of the Autocephalous Churches which recognize the OCA's autocephaly is at best a laughable position. LOL! Irrespective of Moscow acknowledging her illegitimate daughter (the OCA): Bulgaria, Poland and the Czech Lands don't constitute an Orthodox plurality. LOL
4)Actually, just returned from Jerusalem with meeting with Patriarch… The church is struggling because of the Jewish state not because of the Greeks
You’d know that if your obvious myopic vitriol and latent envy for Greeks wasn’t clouding your statements
As far as documentation every statement you make anybody can do that: the Turks document the Genocide wasn’t.
And Yes I can prove for centuries the Moscow Patriarchate has acted un-canonically all the way up to Saint Tikhon creating a diocese for an entire continent for the first time in all Christian History.
Furthermore, if your Passions didn’t cloud your judgment you would see that it is not ‘Elgreca’ weeping for your extinction but ‘theorthodoxchurch’ post which is pointing out the OCA’s un-canonical status and inevitable assimilation into one 'Canonical' Orthodox Church of America acknowledged by ALL Canonical Churches not just the Slavic Lands!
Yeah, Greek envy, that's it. Funny the apologists for the Vatican say the same thing: they have Rome and we don't.
1. Then you can post documentation stating otherwise.
2. I said nothing about any first Church in Constantinople, nor gave any numbers on the Russians (nor, for that matter, have you). The link only provided an interesting article connected to the issue.
3. Phyletist solidarity isn't going the save EP from reality, as it didn't save it in the case of ALL (except Serbia) the autocephalous Churches.
4. And the Brotherhood running the Church for colonists isn't a problem? As I said, contrast with Antioch.
Please document and "prove for centuries the Moscow Patriarchate has acted un-canonically all the way up to Saint Tikhon." Btw, on the continent thing, Read canon 6 of Nicea (Rome, Alexandria, Antioch) and compare the map of the continents of the Greco-Roman world (Europe, Africa, Asia). And note the uncanonical claims on at least three continents in the Tomos of 1908, and the claim of the GOA to both all of North AND South America (the latter which I've yet to see any proof of Greek involvement on the continent at the time).
Btw, the Georgians are not Slavs. And even if the proponents of the OCA's autocephaly were Slavs, what of it? The opponents are Greek (the same ones whose predecessors fought Met./Arb./EP/Pope Meletios' election as EP as illegal and void, after he innovated this interpretation of canon 28).
Which, speaking of which, given the "illegal," "uncanonical" and "void" election of the deposed Meletios when he granted the GOANSA's first charter in violation of the 1908 Tomos, I'd be more careful about calling anyone illegitimate, in need of recognition.
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