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Never confuse the earthly empire with the Heavenly Kingdom.
THE FAB FIVE
Words from a righteous man: Fr. Makarios Griniezakis is an Archimandrite of the Ecumenical Throne;
- “…even a cursory study of history shows us that every heresy, schism and ecclesiastical division stemmed from personal ambition and egotism, only later to be robed in the mantle of dogmatic diversity”.
- “When we emphasize our vastness and point to statistical demonstrations, it means that we are not shepherds, but rather operatives of power, exploiting the administrative and spiritual authority that springs forth from our position”.
- "The pentarchy is comprised of Old Rome, New Rome (Constantinople) and the Patriarchates of Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem. Not only was Moscow never considered a member of the pentarchy, but also there are no ecclesiastical or canonical texts that designate Moscow as the replacement or substitute for Old Rome”.
- “It is clear from the discussion that the Ecumenical Patriarchate will certainly not lose the position of primacy that it maintains; the ranking of the Orthodox Churches will not change; and the committee in question--or any other committee that is formed--will not institute rebellious changes in the Orthodox Church”.
- “The truth will release us from our parochial attitude and self-love; the truth will liberate us from spitefulness and our egos; the truth will allow us to move beyond feelings that instigate internal quarrels and erect narcissistic partitions. 'The truth shall set us free.’”
7 comments:
The Fab Five. Here I thought you were Orthodox. I didn't know that you all were in the Vatican's communion. I guess then that you accept the Vatican's condemnation of Constantinople being an upstart, usurping Alexandria's place by use of political power. The Popes of Old Rome have plenty that they have written on the personal ambition and egotism of the primates of Constantinople as operatives of power. If you are going to make the Pentarchy of the Old Roman Empire a dogma, then you are going to have to follow the dogmas of its head, the Pope of Old Rome.
Isa
Your ability to quote history like Wiki-pedia astonishes, it’s sad though, because, your treatment of the facts is all wrong.
The only correct quote from elgreca’s post is “The Fab Five”!
The rest of your tirade is based on “I thought”, “I didn’t know” and “I guess”; sounds like the resume of the AOI cronies.
Yet you go on and make factual assertions like “you all were in the Vatican's communion” or “you accept the Vatican's condemnation of Constantinople” you must have pulled that one out of your asinine knowledge of ecclesiastical history.
This quote takes the cake; you suggest “If you are going to make the Pentarchy of the Old Roman Empire a dogma, then you are going to have to follow the dogmas of its head, the Pope of Old Rome”.
Did you read elgreca’s post? Nowhere is that ridiculous assertion put forth!
Though I must admit when I first starting reading it I thought it was about the AOI: “every heresy, schism and ecclesiastical division stemmed from personal ambition and egotism”
Get a grip on yourself! and your facts!
The Pentarchy has never been a dogma in the Orthodox Church, nor can it be: Old Rome went into schism over that. As the Germans say, who says A, must say B. If you are going to claim some special status for the 5 patriarchs of the pentarchy, you are going to have to include the heretical Vatican in your claims: after all, he was the head of the Pentarchy. To quote Met. Jonah, if we needed a pope, we'd go to the real one.
You belch forth a lot of criticism (I'm being generous over your rant), but you make no sustained argument nor supply any facts to substantiate your position. As for my facts on the Church's history in Constantinople, I got that at the University of Chicago, where I did graduate work under the esteemed Prof. Kaegi. Where did you "learn" history?
Facts: Pope St. Leo the Great of Old Rome wrote a lot on the pride and impudence of New Rome in arrogating (as he saw it) to itself equality with Old Rome. Pope St. Gregory denounced St. John the Faster as the precursor of the Antichrist over the EP title. Pope Nicholas et alia denounced St. Photios for his pride, etc. Sounds a lot like the whining coming from the Phanariot Phyletists over Moscow.
Isa once agian you make stuff up "The Pentarchy has never been a dogma in the Orthodox Church, nor can it be" NOBODY except you makes that assertion.
Then you go on and argue a point that was never there to begin with... very creative! Arguing with yourself!
I have read your blog no surprise.
Then what are you claiming for the Pentarchy? What difference do you see that Moscow wasn't part of the original Pentarchy?
Are you admitting that the Ultramontanism of the Phanar, given the Orthodox rejection of Ultramontanism at Old Rome, makes no sense?
Since I don't have a blog, can you give me its address. I'd like to see it.
I am not claiming anything for the Pentarchy. Its Moscow making crazy suggestions.
Moscovites were swinging from the frozen trees when the pentarchy -original five churches coexisted.
You need to get a grip with your "Ultramontanism of the Phanar, given the Orthodox rejection of Ultramontanism at Old Rome" you sound crazy.
http://ancientchristiandefender.blogspt.com/
There you go
And the EP was an auxiliary bishop, and Jerusalem a heap of ruins, while Rome, Alexandria and Antioch built up the Church. Your point?
Sound? To those have ears, let them hear.
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